It's like I don't even recognize this load Board or this business that should be pretty familliar after all these years

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It's like I don't even recognize this load Board or this business that should be pretty familliar after all these years

Feb 17, 2023 at 05:08 PM CST
+ 47 - 4

There is so many new so called brokers and scamers soliciting freight on here that it dont even seem like the same load board it was even 2 months ago.

The shippers i have worked with for years have become impossible to contact and it appears that they have just decided to sit back relax and just turn everything over to any fly by night freight solicitor that dont even know how many pounds it take to equal a ton. I guess the profits have been way to good for shippers to even care when or even if there products gets shipped or if there customrs are getting what they need when they need it. Even the freight solicitors for loads that may or may not exist have become so dam lazy that instead of posting a load on its acual ship dates that happens maybe once a week they just post the load as if its ongoing for months so they dont have even repost a load more than a couple times a year. All the years I have been in the trucking business, there is not a day that goes by that we are not trying our best to become more and more efficient to survive in a business that has had to overcome a pay cut every year for the last 3 decades with the rising cost of everything and the erroneous new DOT restictions applied to us every year. Just seems to me that the other side of the trucking bussiness has not really had to do much of anything other than just testing the truckers breaking point anymore. But then what the hell do I know. Im ready for the sarcasm. Bring it on

Replied on Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 09:09 PM CST
+ 5
Curt you are 100% right in my years of truck I have never seen the new amount of these so called brokers until now hell every day there is some new clown out here offering cheap freight I don’t know when or if this will ever stop not to mention that we have way to many big corporate companies cutting the profit out of things stay safe & buckle up for the ride is going to get wild i believe
Replied on Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 12:51 PM CST
+ 3

My personal favorite is when multiple people have the SAME load listed.. and after wasting a couple hours trying to track it down.. you learn NONE of them had it to begin with..

Or there are a handful of guys who will post directly after a load, and offer it at 20% or more LESS than the original poster.

Replied on Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 12:52 PM CST
+ 3

From the sounds around and history the van world is a little slow so all of the sudden you see the TQLs of the world out soliciting there services more into the market

Replied on Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 12:52 PM CST
+ 1

i believe the owner operator / or smaller guys have it to do

i believe big business would like to tie up on both ends shipping and recieving brokers are just speeding the process up

thats my 2 cents

Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 07:35 AM CST
Quote: "My personal favorite is when multiple people have the SAME load listed.. and after wasting a couple hours trying to track it down.. you learn NONE of them had it to begin with.. Or there are a handful of guys who will post directly after a load, and offer it at 20% or more LESS than the original poster."

i am coming from open deck trailers and what you are talking about (same load for different money)is terrible on truckstop and DAT load boards

Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 01:55 PM CST
+ 1

I do business with the same brokerages regularly. I've run into 2 issues.

Brokers inside the brokerage have changed and those brokers think they should make as much as the truck hauling the load. Brokerages that had fair paying loads now have young brokers who care nothing about relationships and reliability and more on making $1-$2 a mile brokering the load. Once good brokerages are now on my no call list. Why, because I know they always trying to offer $2 a mile on a lane everyone else is paying $3 or more.

There is another broker I deal with who is extremely frustrating. When I call them about a load they have posted, they can take 30 minutes to get back to you on whether it is available or not. It's almost as if they have to call and book it themselves. They are the only broker I call who can't tell me immediately whether the load is available or not and I find that very sketchy.

Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 01:56 PM CST
+ 2

Customers are going to start learning that the rate to "get the load" and the rate to "get the load done" are two completely different things.

Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 02:25 PM CST
+ 2

I am noticing this too....Rates have dropped, in some instances, 50c - 75c/mi in consistant lanes. I also can't help, but notice that spot brokers are posting loads for 25-30% off the rate direct from the shipper. JTA Pro has a load from a direct shipper (That says not to post their loads in the weekly load-list) that is 27% off of the rate in that lane. A load that is $1.80/bu is being offered for $47/ton. I don't know what the solution is here. These people need to be held accountable, or we all need to park trucks. Unfortunately, most people can't afford to park trucks; and there won't be any accountability...because who wouldn't want their product moved for next to nothing to maximise profits?

Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 02:25 PM CST
Quote: "I do business with the same brokerages regularly. I've run into 2 issues. Brokers inside the brokerage have changed and those brokers think they should make as much as the truck hauling the load. Brokerages that had fair paying loads now have young brokers who care nothing about relationships and reliability and more on making $1-$2 a mile brokering the load. Once good brokerages are now on my no call list. Why, because I know they always trying to offer $2 a mile on a lane everyone else is paying $3 or more. There is another broker I deal with who is extremely frustrating. When I call them about a load they have posted, they can take 30 minutes to get back to you on whether it is available or not. It's almost as if they have to call and book it themselves. They are the only broker I call who can't tell me immediately whether the load is available or not and I find that very sketchy. "

At least it isn't just me.
Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 02:25 PM CST
+ 1
People posting loads that they don't have on here is a constant headache and waste of time.
Replied on Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 03:20 PM CST
+ 3
Quote: "I am noticing this too....Rates have dropped, in some instances, 50c - 75c/mi in consistant lanes. I also can't help, but notice that spot brokers are posting loads for 25-30% off the rate direct from the shipper. JTA Pro has a load from a direct shipper (That says not to post their loads in the weekly load-list) that is 27% off of the rate in that lane. A load that is $1.80/bu is being offered for $47/ton. I don't know what the solution is here. These people need to be held accountable, or we all need to park trucks. Unfortunately, most people can't afford to park trucks; and there won't be any accountability...because who wouldn't want their product moved for next to nothing to maximise profits?"

I’ve had to block JTA Pro because all they do is copy paste from Commodity Service’s email list while slashing the rate another 20% or more. It’s beyond annoying.
Replied on Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 09:58 AM CST
If there is more money in brokering why would anyone want to be a carrier? Why not just become a broker instead? Probably explains why there has been a explosion of brokers in the market, it just makes more sense to be a broker than a carrier, better hours, more money, and less upfront costs, do it right from your home, no commercial property payments or taxes, no truck or trailer payments, no equipment to make payments on when times get slow, you offload all the headache onto someone else, let them make payments on trucks that don’t have any drivers in them or deal with DOT problems.
Replied on Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 10:34 AM CST
Quote: "If there is more money in brokering why would anyone want to be a carrier? Why not just become a broker instead? Probably explains why there has been a explosion of brokers in the market, it just makes more sense to be a broker than a carrier, better hours, more money, and less upfront costs, do it right from your home, no commercial property payments or taxes, no truck or trailer payments, no equipment to make payments on when times get slow, you offload all the headache onto someone else, let them make payments on trucks that don’t have any drivers in them or deal with DOT problems."

I do understand what you're saying, but there are headaches with both. We are a carrier first, and also a broker. Both sides to the business have their own issues. The hours are not better. My son, who is the broker agent, is on the phone with our drivers and carriers at all times day and night. I know our situation might be different, but he deals with our truck breakdowns, late loads, convincing shippers that they need to pay detention (which is getting harder and harder), changing plan due to weather, breakdowns, etc, etc., etc. We have to have the money up front to pay our carriers for the loads before the shippers pay us, etc. I think your statement is way too general. There are a lot of good brokers that exist in this market who genuinely care about this industry.

Replied on Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 10:43 AM CST

You guys should click this link and pay attention to what this guy says, particularly the part about factoring companies "How Much Does It Costs To Start A Freight Broker Business" youtube

Replied on Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 11:17 AM CST
Quote: "You guys should click this link and pay attention to what this guy says, particularly the part about factoring companies "How Much Does It Costs To Start A Freight Broker Business" youtube"

Replied on Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 01:11 PM CST
Quote: "I do understand what you're saying, but there are headaches with both. We are a carrier first, and also a broker. Both sides to the business have their own issues. The hours are not better. My son, who is the broker agent, is on the phone with our drivers and carriers at all times day and night. I know our situation might be different, but he deals with our truck breakdowns, late loads, convincing shippers that they need to pay detention (which is getting harder and harder), changing plan due to weather, breakdowns, etc, etc., etc. We have to have the money up front to pay our carriers for the loads before the shippers pay us, etc. I think your statement is way too general. There are a lot of good brokers that exist in this market who genuinely care about this industry. "

Jennifer I am not saying that there are not good brokers out there, I'm just saying that that folks migrate to where the money is, if there is better money in brokering then it makes sense that people will go there instead of becoming carriers.

Replied on Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 02:52 PM CST
Curt, your spot on. A trucking company can’t compete, price wise, with a broker. As long as time isn’t a factor, the broker will always be able to find some fool to haul the load cheap. I’ve notice a lot of new brokers on here that just repost(double broker) loads. I’ve also notice 4 or 5 brokers posting the same load for the same shipper /merchandiser and that shipper is no longer posting their loads, but rather let the broker deal with the trucks. Unfortunately I think the good times in this specialized business is coming to a end.
Replied on Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 06:14 AM CST
+ 1

Real brokers pay within 3-4 days

fly by night pay when they get paid from the load supplier

BL pulled all the posts about double brokering because of Starla in sd

if you own or have a contract for 10 loads hire who you want

Replied on Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:29 AM CST

Curt, I've been thinking the exact same thing for a while now, well said. I highly recommend EVERYONE listen to the Bulk--Loads--Podcast (I tried to type it slow like they say it in the introduction) regarding double brokering. That one podcast tells you all you need to know about where things stand around here.

Replied on Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:33 AM CST
+ 1
Quote: "I’ve had to block JTA Pro because all they do is copy paste from Commodity Service’s email list while slashing the rate another 20% or more. It’s beyond annoying."

They are bad about reposting Badger loads as well..

Replied on Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:37 PM CST

Look at how many are out of port Neal

at least 5 so far. Begging for Canadian hauling

Replied on Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:38 PM CST
Quote: "How Much Does It Cost To Start A Freight Broker Business? - YouTube"

That guy is a con artist anmd out there teaching how to race to the bottom and steal from carriers. I've seen a bunch of his videos. I cant wait to see his video when he runs out of cheap people to use. "What to do when all your foriegners are out of business"

Replied on Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 01:24 PM CST

This Kind of Hits, I just joined Bulk Loads to find some haulers.

Was recommended by a trucker actually.

As a Broker I'll Tell you, yes I have loads if you want them. But at the same time I'd like to make money, I'll try and get you as good a rate as possible were we both make money, but at most I'll break even. I'm trying to sustain myself,customer,company, and you.

Don't be greedy with me and I wont be greedy with you. If you in Kansas Let me know.

Replied on Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 03:59 PM CST
+ 1

Kansas... Here there are 5000 loads paying $2 a mile. I can't remember the last time I got a load over $3 a mile in Kansas other than KC.

If I'm in Kansas, I just deadhead to KC so I'm not sending the message that it's okay to offer rates so bad. Had one broker offer me a Lyons to Denver load for 96 cents a mile and I hung up on them and I'll never call them back again.

No idea how they get away with rates that low when it's near impossible to get out of California and you can still get close to $3 a mile in that hotly competative market.

I'm curious what your rates are. It's not being greedy to pay fuel, insurance, the driver, and have a few pennies left over to put in the truck owner's pocket.

What is are your rates in Kansas? I'll call you.

Replied on Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 12:37 PM CST
I agree with you 💯 it's not the same. It is sad that after all we do over the yrs that it seems loyalty doesn't exist. No one cares about getting the product delivered to the customer on time they would rather keep trying to move it for cheap. Most of these so called brokers have not a clue what it takes to operate a trucking company. They just look to pad their pockets 95
Replied on Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 01:21 PM CST
Quote: "Curt, I've been thinking the exact same thing for a while now, well said. I highly recommend EVERYONE listen to the Bulk--Loads--Podcast (I tried to type it slow like they say it in the introduction) regarding double brokering. That one podcast tells you all you need to know about where things stand around here."

They are still letting brokers post loads and 4 different brokers post the same double brokering is still going on.
Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 09:39 AM CST
Quote: "They are still letting brokers post loads and 4 different brokers post the same double brokering is still going on."

That's co-brokering. Co-brokering is legal, and choosing to not know the difference is ignorance. There is double brokering going on, but it isn't being done by a broker giving a load to another broker that has the proper authority to move the load.

Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 10:15 AM CST

Here we go! I told you guys about a year ago to firm up your customer base, don't gouge your customers and provide good service and all I heard was "other sectors are making big money, we should too!" Well yes, personally we did well during the Covid crap and high fuel prices from a demented, hair sniffing idiot era we are in. I said and I quote, "provide good service to your customers while making sure that they can make a profit on their goods so they can keep you busy!" we did that and our rates are still where we are very profitable! If you have been in this business for a long time, you see the ebs and flows of the industry! I personally saw people pulling equipment out of the weeds to haul frac sand when it was booming and everyone hitching their wagons to a single segment of the industry instead of taking care of who take care of them 52 weeks per year! Yes the frac sand was nice and good paying but it had problems too and now is basically non existent.

Do I believe that I am nostradomus? No i do not, but I can tell you that I have been doing this long enough to know that you stay in your lane and keep your eye on your own bobber and you may not get rich, but you will make a good living while keeping your company very viable! I would like to know where all of these guys are right now that thought they should have a minimum of $6/mile? What say you guys? I will honestly say that our company will continue to service the same customers at a fair rate and will continue to be a viable company while watching the people chasing high dollars go broke!

Rant over. Have a great day

Keith

ET Trucking

Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 10:16 AM CST
Quote: "They are still letting brokers post loads and 4 different brokers post the same double brokering is still going on."

And so we are clear....I hate brokers that just re-post loads from other brokers. I called out JTA Pro earlier in this message....but with that said, what they are doing is legal. Doesn't mean that I think that it's right. That's why I started a thread that I named "The Transparency Solution", because I think it could solve some transparency issues that we have in the industry; and BL might be willing to do it.

Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 10:59 AM CST
Quote: "That's co-brokering. Co-brokering is legal, and choosing to not know the difference is ignorance. There is double brokering going on, but it isn't being done by a broker giving a load to another broker that has the proper authority to move the load."

Co-brokering? If one broker has a load in hand and another broker takes the load from the original broker and hands it off to a carrier, that is double brokering! Co brokering would be if one broker works a deal with the original broker to SPLIT the brokerage fee for setting up with a carrier. There is no grey area here! You can put a whole bunch of perfume on this pig but it still stinks!!!!

Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 11:59 AM CST
Quote: "Co-brokering? If one broker has a load in hand and another broker takes the load from the original broker and hands it off to a carrier, that is double brokering! Co brokering would be if one broker works a deal with the original broker to SPLIT the brokerage fee for setting up with a carrier. There is no grey area here! You can put a whole bunch of perfume on this pig but it still stinks!!!!"

Incorrect. As annoying as co-brokering is from a carrier standpoint, it's very much legal and has nothing to do with splitting of fees. It has everything to do with having proper broker authority and making sure all parties involved, including the shipper, are aware of what's going on.

Co-Brokering vs. Double Brokering

Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:06 PM CST
Quote: "Co-brokering? If one broker has a load in hand and another broker takes the load from the original broker and hands it off to a carrier, that is double brokering! Co brokering would be if one broker works a deal with the original broker to SPLIT the brokerage fee for setting up with a carrier. There is no grey area here! You can put a whole bunch of perfume on this pig but it still stinks!!!!"

If you had a direct customer who suddenly threw more freight at you than you could cover on your own what would you do? If you pass on it your customer invites one of your competitors to dinner, then what? Or would you try to keep that from happening by turning to someone you trust to help you cover that work? Brokers face that same question, so I wouldn’t look for government to ever stop it.
Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 04:53 PM CST
+ 1
Quote: "Incorrect. As annoying as co-brokering is from a carrier standpoint, it's very much legal and has nothing to do with splitting of fees. It has everything to do with having proper broker authority and making sure all parties involved, including the shipper, are aware of what's going on. Co-Brokering vs. Double Brokering"

So let me get this straight, you're allowing a broker or broker's organization define double brokering? Seriously? Who put them in charge of defining anything? What kind of bullshit answer would you expect from a broker or brokerage group like Carrier 411 or the TIA? If you were a sheep, would you believe the wolf if he told you he had your best interest at heart? Come on, one broker plus one broker = two brokers. You don't need to be a math matician, or genius to figure this out. It may very well be legal, however, it's not ethical. Sometimes a little common sense is all that's needed to figure things out. This topic makes me.. Hell, I'm going to pour myself a bourbon... on the rocks!!!

Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 09:10 PM CST
- 1
Quote: "So let me get this straight, you're allowing a broker or broker's organization define double brokering? Seriously? Who put them in charge of defining anything? What kind of bullshit answer would you expect from a broker or brokerage group like Carrier 411 or the TIA? If you were a sheep, would you believe the wolf if he told you he had your best interest at heart? Come on, one broker plus one broker = two brokers. You don't need to be a math matician, or genius to figure this out. It may very well be legal, however, it's not ethical. Sometimes a little common sense is all that's needed to figure things out. This topic makes me.. Hell, I'm going to pour myself a bourbon... on the rocks!!!"

Critical thinking isn’t your strong point is it? Regardless of the source it’s not wrong. Feel free to look up the definition of double brokering on FMCSA’s website or just stay ignorant.
Replied on Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 09:11 PM CST
Quote: "So let me get this straight, you're allowing a broker or broker's organization define double brokering? Seriously? Who put them in charge of defining anything? What kind of bullshit answer would you expect from a broker or brokerage group like Carrier 411 or the TIA? If you were a sheep, would you believe the wolf if he told you he had your best interest at heart? Come on, one broker plus one broker = two brokers. You don't need to be a math matician, or genius to figure this out. It may very well be legal, however, it's not ethical. Sometimes a little common sense is all that's needed to figure things out. This topic makes me.. Hell, I'm going to pour myself a bourbon... on the rocks!!!"

No, it's the definition set forth by the Department of Transportation in their Code of Federal Regulations. It may be unethical to co-broker, but it is not illegal.

Replied on Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 12:35 PM CST
+ 1
Quote: "Critical thinking isn’t your strong point is it? Regardless of the source it’s not wrong. Feel free to look up the definition of double brokering on FMCSA’s website or just stay ignorant."

If critical thinking isn’t my strong point, reading isn’t yours because I clearly stated it is legal…
Replied on Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 09:19 PM CST
Quote: "No, it's the definition set forth by the Department of Transportation in their Code of Federal Regulations. It may be unethical to co-broker, but it is not illegal."

I love a spirited conversation. So, to that end, since you and Jomar Rodriguez bring up the FMCSA website, and the Dept. of Transportation Code of Federal Regulations, commonly referred to as the CFR, please educate me and others who are in the dark as to the "specific" code that defines "double brokering", and "co-brokering"..

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 06:50 AM CST
Quote: "I love a spirited conversation. So, to that end, since you and Jomar Rodriguez bring up the FMCSA website, and the Dept. of Transportation Code of Federal Regulations, commonly referred to as the CFR, please educate me and others who are in the dark as to the "specific" code that defines "double brokering", and "co-brokering".."

I actually looked this up because you seemed so confident in your reply.

Oddly, there is no law against double brokering so long as everyone gets paid. FMCSA's only response to double brokering is that they are monitoring the situation. To me that makes it sound like they know it's going on but there is no specific law against it. It only becomes a crime when the middleman broker takes the money and doesn't pay the carrier.

I find it odd, that as much as the government regulates everything, that there would not be a law against double brokering (not to be confused with co-brokering).

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 09:42 AM CST
Quote: "I am noticing this too....Rates have dropped, in some instances, 50c - 75c/mi in consistant lanes. I also can't help, but notice that spot brokers are posting loads for 25-30% off the rate direct from the shipper. JTA Pro has a load from a direct shipper (That says not to post their loads in the weekly load-list) that is 27% off of the rate in that lane. A load that is $1.80/bu is being offered for $47/ton. I don't know what the solution is here. These people need to be held accountable, or we all need to park trucks. Unfortunately, most people can't afford to park trucks; and there won't be any accountability...because who wouldn't want their product moved for next to nothing to maximise profits?"

Why then, if it's 25-30% off the shippers rate, just call the shipper if myou know what they are paying, and get it yourself? Am I missing something here?

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 09:43 AM CST
Quote: "I do business with the same brokerages regularly. I've run into 2 issues. Brokers inside the brokerage have changed and those brokers think they should make as much as the truck hauling the load. Brokerages that had fair paying loads now have young brokers who care nothing about relationships and reliability and more on making $1-$2 a mile brokering the load. Once good brokerages are now on my no call list. Why, because I know they always trying to offer $2 a mile on a lane everyone else is paying $3 or more. There is another broker I deal with who is extremely frustrating. When I call them about a load they have posted, they can take 30 minutes to get back to you on whether it is available or not. It's almost as if they have to call and book it themselves. They are the only broker I call who can't tell me immediately whether the load is available or not and I find that very sketchy. "

Could you please share where brokers are making $1-2.00 a mile? I see ALL these post how the broker is making tons of money, yet no one shows the numbers that "they" know for certain, are FACTUALLY confirmed numbers. If that is the case, let's ALL become our own brokers, and broker loads to ourselves, and then we'd really be bringing in the money. I'm waiting for the numbers from someone, so I don't have to do it myself. Please message me, or I guess, just post it here. Maybe someone else is thinking the same as me.

Thx

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 12:05 PM CST
Quote: "Could you please share where brokers are making $1-2.00 a mile? I see ALL these post how the broker is making tons of money, yet no one shows the numbers that "they" know for certain, are FACTUALLY confirmed numbers. If that is the case, let's ALL become our own brokers, and broker loads to ourselves, and then we'd really be bringing in the money. I'm waiting for the numbers from someone, so I don't have to do it myself. Please message me, or I guess, just post it here. Maybe someone else is thinking the same as me. Thx"

Well said. Facts matter.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 12:11 PM CST
Quote: "Could you please share where brokers are making $1-2.00 a mile? I see ALL these post how the broker is making tons of money, yet no one shows the numbers that "they" know for certain, are FACTUALLY confirmed numbers. If that is the case, let's ALL become our own brokers, and broker loads to ourselves, and then we'd really be bringing in the money. I'm waiting for the numbers from someone, so I don't have to do it myself. Please message me, or I guess, just post it here. Maybe someone else is thinking the same as me. Thx"

I'll tell you right now that's a lie unless the broker in question is double brokering or co-brokering.

We have a massive operation here and aint no one making $2 a mile on a load and he only time someone even making even close to that is on crazy types of loads. Like moving Massive OD loads. Where the customer is paying 13k to move something. The truck is getting payed at least 11.5 on it.

We give Drivers at least 90% of the pay and still get a ton of drivers asking for 120% and up.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 12:12 PM CST
Quote: "I actually looked this up because you seemed so confident in your reply. Oddly, there is no law against double brokering so long as everyone gets paid. FMCSA's only response to double brokering is that they are monitoring the situation. To me that makes it sound like they know it's going on but there is no specific law against it. It only becomes a crime when the middleman broker takes the money and doesn't pay the carrier. I find it odd, that as much as the government regulates everything, that there would not be a law against double brokering (not to be confused with co-brokering). "

Thank you for taking the time to look it up for yourself. If you go back through any of my comments you will find I have NEVER said it's illegal, because I know it is perfectly legal for 27 brokers to pass a load around like a bottle of whiskey, and all take a drink.

I find it interesting that those who like to quickly refer to any of the federal regulations never seem to be able to back their response up with actual sections of the code or rules that specifically make their point a topic. I bet in your search of the official regs, you didn't find anything that specifically defined double brokering, or co-brokering for that matter. Why do you think that is when a simple Google search yields all sorts of definitions from self proclaimed experts, none of which are backed up by actual sections of the code to which they are referring? If you want the answer, I recommend listening to the Bulkloads podcast on the subject. Pay close attention to the very first thing the guest says regarding the definition of double brokering, and not key in on his actual definition. There is your answer. Then, ask yourself why is it in his best interest, of all people to define the topic, his best interest to have the definition he has about the subject.

Yes, I'm extremely confident in my responses and there is a very good reason why. While I don't propose to be an expert in anything, and can most certainly be wrong, I'm human, I do have extensive hands on experience regarding the FMCSA Regs, USC, and the CFRs outside of being a carrier. I had a life besides owning a truck for over three decades. I own hard copies of all the transportation rules, regs, and statutes, know how to use, comprehend, and apply them. When you go beyond a Google search and actually take time to read the regs, the answers are there. Everything else is useless static which is where all the misinformation starts.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 12:12 PM CST
Quote: "I agree with you 💯 it's not the same. It is sad that after all we do over the yrs that it seems loyalty doesn't exist. No one cares about getting the product delivered to the customer on time they would rather keep trying to move it for cheap. Most of these so called brokers have not a clue what it takes to operate a trucking company. They just look to pad their pockets 95"

Do you know what it costs to run a brokerage business? If you think brokers are "stealing" then why in the hell would you be on this load board? All these b******* in the trucking industry don't realize that the broker is YOUR CUSTOMER! and yet, you bafoons are throwing your customer under the bus!!! It's really funny to read some of these "carriers" bash their customer, yet, they do not go out ON THEIR OWN and find loads themselves. Man up, and figure out that the complainers will not win. It's the truth, but you don't want to hear it. I am not trying to piss people off, but I'm sure I am. The truth hurts.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 12:28 PM CST
Quote: "Do you know what it costs to run a brokerage business? If you think brokers are "stealing" then why in the hell would you be on this load board? All these b******* in the trucking industry don't realize that the broker is YOUR CUSTOMER! and yet, you bafoons are throwing your customer under the bus!!! It's really funny to read some of these "carriers" bash their customer, yet, they do not go out ON THEIR OWN and find loads themselves. Man up, and figure out that the complainers will not win. It's the truth, but you don't want to hear it. I am not trying to piss people off, but I'm sure I am. The truth hurts."

Someone has had WAAAAY to much caffene today...Dave, push the coffee cup away and BREATHE...It's gonna be OK.

I would submit to you that the carrier is also a brokerage's customer, without them a broker only has half a business.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 02:09 PM CST
Quote: "Why then, if it's 25-30% off the shippers rate, just call the shipper if myou know what they are paying, and get it yourself? Am I missing something here?"

The reason I know what it is paying is because we do haul it direct. And that shipper, specifically, says not to post their loads. I believe in the ability to charge what you want, but not at the expense of a quarter of someone's profit. 25% would be fair if you offered a great rate. That lane is a good lane, but after 25% it's a break-even south-bound lane.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 02:22 PM CST
+ 2
Quote: "Do you know what it costs to run a brokerage business? If you think brokers are "stealing" then why in the hell would you be on this load board? All these b******* in the trucking industry don't realize that the broker is YOUR CUSTOMER! and yet, you bafoons are throwing your customer under the bus!!! It's really funny to read some of these "carriers" bash their customer, yet, they do not go out ON THEIR OWN and find loads themselves. Man up, and figure out that the complainers will not win. It's the truth, but you don't want to hear it. I am not trying to piss people off, but I'm sure I am. The truth hurts."

A lot of trucks do get their stuff direct and then have brokers, of late, come in & take their work from them by undercutting. A broker is not a customer. They are supposed to be a 3rd party representative that stays in contact with the customer. Some trucks need brokers, but all brokers need truckers. Everyone here "b*******" is venting, because they feel like they don't have fair representation in their own market anymore. And they are correct. Trucker unions are a joke, and the good brokers are being forced to compete with garbage brokers for lanes that they have held for years. Don't demand that people man up and not complain. We all share a first amendment right to complain when and where we want. Do I think it helps? No. But I will always stand by someone's right to do so.

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 03:40 PM CST
Quote: "A lot of trucks do get their stuff direct and then have brokers, of late, come in & take their work from them by undercutting. A broker is not a customer. They are supposed to be a 3rd party representative that stays in contact with the customer. Some trucks need brokers, but all brokers need truckers. Everyone here "b*******" is venting, because they feel like they don't have fair representation in their own market anymore. And they are correct. Trucker unions are a joke, and the good brokers are being forced to compete with garbage brokers for lanes that they have held for years. Don't demand that people man up and not complain. We all share a first amendment right to complain when and where we want. Do I think it helps? No. But I will always stand by someone's right to do so. "

Another very good point BOOM... Micdrop😎

Replied on Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 03:40 PM CST
Quote: "I love a spirited conversation. So, to that end, since you and Jomar Rodriguez bring up the FMCSA website, and the Dept. of Transportation Code of Federal Regulations, commonly referred to as the CFR, please educate me and others who are in the dark as to the "specific" code that defines "double brokering", and "co-brokering".."

I'm still waiting...🤷

Replied on Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 08:17 AM CST
Quote: "Someone has had WAAAAY to much caffene today...Dave, push the coffee cup away and BREATHE...It's gonna be OK. I would submit to you that the carrier is also a brokerage's customer, without them a broker only has half a business."

If you are selling a product or service, the party buying that product or service is the customer. Business one o one. It is unfortunate when the seller doesn't know the value of their service and can't put a price on it.

Replied on Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 09:56 AM CST
Quote: "If you are selling a product or service, the party buying that product or service is the customer. Business one o one. It is unfortunate when the seller doesn't know the value of their service and can't put a price on it."

So are you saying the broker isn't selling a service? It's my opinion, I'm sure others have theirs as well, that a broker is selling service to both parties. They are selling a service to shippers, and the carrier. If I as a carrier agree to take the load, then the broker is making the commission off of the load, If I don't take the load he must get someone else to cover it. I see the commission they make off the load to be what I'm willing to pay to get the load. I respect anyone's differing opinion. However, my point is, nothing happens without the carrier. Without the carrier, the shipper doesn't get his product to market, and the broker has no service of value to a shipper. I further believe, in the supply chain of today, there are those who find it in their interest to keep carriers believing they are at the bottom, and should be glad to take what they can get. My opinion of the carrier being a customer of a broker is merely an attempt to get people to look at the situation in a different way.

Replied on Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 10:07 AM CST

I see your angle. But which way does the money flow? Who's paying who? Literally.

Replied on Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 12:28 PM CST
Quote: "I see your angle. But which way does the money flow? Who's paying who? Literally."

I totally understand which way the money flows, however I don't believe carriers are at the bottom of the food chain, especially if nothing happens without them.

Replied on Sat, Mar 04, 2023 at 11:07 AM CST

Yes complete waste of time nobody has the load in hand. They want to shop for rates and never return phone calls everybody now wants you bid. I don't do it anymore tell me what you got in it and I can tell you if I can do it

Replied on Sat, Mar 04, 2023 at 03:35 PM CST
Quote: "So are you saying the broker isn't selling a service? It's my opinion, I'm sure others have theirs as well, that a broker is selling service to both parties. They are selling a service to shippers, and the carrier. If I as a carrier agree to take the load, then the broker is making the commission off of the load, If I don't take the load he must get someone else to cover it. I see the commission they make off the load to be what I'm willing to pay to get the load. I respect anyone's differing opinion. However, my point is, nothing happens without the carrier. Without the carrier, the shipper doesn't get his product to market, and the broker has no service of value to a shipper. I further believe, in the supply chain of today, there are those who find it in their interest to keep carriers believing they are at the bottom, and should be glad to take what they can get. My opinion of the carrier being a customer of a broker is merely an attempt to get people to look at the situation in a different way."

Well said Barry. I get irritated when it seems some (not all) brokerages try to cheapen our work by offering quick pay for a percentage of the load. This is only a thing (factoring & quick pay) because somewhere down the line carriers began to believe they were at the bottom of the supply chain, and they should be greatful to be paid timely. I would bet most of the American public doesn't even know factoring and quick pay schemes exist, & some would be appalled to know it's common place.

BOTTOM LINE: We supply the truck, trailer, fuel cost, insurance, and our time. We are certainly not the bottom.