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Home > Forum > True Rate

True rate

Apr 16, 2020 at 12:35 PM CST
+ 9 - 4
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
I drive ed lease to a company am looking the market to see if can reinstate my own authority. My question is how much negotiable is the average rate that is post on every load. Thanks CJ
Replied on Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 03:18 PM CST
+ 6 - 1
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Most of time you'll never know what the "true" rate is and frankly it doesn't matter IF you get YOUR rate to move it. If you cannot negotiate enough to get a rate YOU need then do NOT haul it!

If it's too low, let it go!

If it doesn't fit, let it sit!
Replied on Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 11:15 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Understood. Less assume I can't move my truck for less than 2.50 p/m so I ask 3.00 dollar p/m is that a fair rate or am off the charts
Replied on Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 07:59 AM CST
+ 1
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "Understood. Less assume I can't move my truck for less than 2.50 p/m so I ask 3.00 dollar p/m is that a fair rate or am off the charts"

There are so many details here to keep in mind that you have left out so take my advice with a grain of salt. If your BOTTOM number for this particular assumed run is $2.50/mile then IMO $3/mile isn't outrageous to ask to start the negotiations with. That number is fluid though when it comes to lane rates. Speaking of lanes rates, if you're in FL usually the outbound is around $1/mile so you would need to get about $3/mile going IN so you can average $2/mile for turn. The spot market is HORRID right now though. Maybe after the virus bullshit passes things will improve if we don't fall into a major depression that is.

Replied on Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:53 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
What I find funny is the fact that nobody here is doing anything different, from all the other carriers before them did that failed, yet everyone expects different results? Webster’s dictionary defines that as insanity, I would say it’s a ego trip. A guy with one truck can work cheaper, since he is the only one on the payroll, and if it’s paid for he has the option to leave it sit, to a certain degree. But if he has drivers working for him, they will not stick around and wait for rates to go up, as the bank forecloses on their house, so he has no choice but to slowly bleed out, and haul that cheap freight hoping it will turn around, this is why the biggest members of the ATA have loudest voice at that table,it’s because they have the most skin in the game, this is not a hobby for them it’s a business.
Replied on Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 04:02 PM CST
+ 2
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
It's funny when a trucker runs around for $1.50/runnin mile he's a foolish rate cutting detriment. When a corn farmer pays insane cash rent to farm a field away from a fellow farmer it's a signal of financial dominance.

Then that farmer puts a couple trucks on the road a few months a year...
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 07:36 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Thomas Jefferson – Banks are more dangerous than standing armies.

Last Updated on By

Thomas Jefferson warned that the people will wake up homeless.

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802: “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property – until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

THOMAS JEFFERSON…
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 07:37 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "What I find funny is the fact that nobody here is doing anything different, from all the other carriers before them did that failed, yet everyone expects different results? Webster’s dictionary defines that as insanity, I would say it’s a ego trip. A guy with one truck can work cheaper, since he is the only one on the payroll, and if it’s paid for he has the option to leave it sit, to a certain degree. But if he has drivers working for him, they will not stick around and wait for rates to go up, as the bank forecloses on their house, so he has no choice but to slowly bleed out, and haul that cheap freight hoping it will turn around, this is why the biggest members of the ATA have loudest voice at that table,it’s because they have the most skin in the game, this is not a hobby for them it’s a business."

He does have a choice though. He can let the driver go and drive the truck himself. Let it sit.
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 07:37 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "What I find funny is the fact that nobody here is doing anything different, from all the other carriers before them did that failed, yet everyone expects different results? Webster’s dictionary defines that as insanity, I would say it’s a ego trip. A guy with one truck can work cheaper, since he is the only one on the payroll, and if it’s paid for he has the option to leave it sit, to a certain degree. But if he has drivers working for him, they will not stick around and wait for rates to go up, as the bank forecloses on their house, so he has no choice but to slowly bleed out, and haul that cheap freight hoping it will turn around, this is why the biggest members of the ATA have loudest voice at that table,it’s because they have the most skin in the game, this is not a hobby for them it’s a business."

Also, the ATA has MILLIONS of dollars "in the game" so they get to BUY laws by lining Congressmen's pockets. They are all filthy rich. Not even right to compare the OO to the mega IMO.

Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 07:37 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
I run with Landstar for almost 12 years flat and dry van If am going to buy a end dump trailer 45k used or 65k new and if I can't run for a minimum of 2.50 p/m I don't see the profit that am expecting to be able to maintain afloat Are we all in the same page or my numbers are an illusion.
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:05 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "He does have a choice though. He can let the driver go and drive the truck himself. Let it sit."

If he owns five trucks, how does he drive all five by himself? If he leaves them sit, how does he make the payment’s without going bankrupt?
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:05 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "It's funny when a trucker runs around for $1.50/runnin mile he's a foolish rate cutting detriment. When a corn farmer pays insane cash rent to farm a field away from a fellow farmer it's a signal of financial dominance. Then that farmer puts a couple trucks on the road a few months a year..."

As you pointed out Paul, there is little difference between the farmer and the trucker, both will work harder as rates drop, motivated by ego instead of profit, and that is what Jefferson warned us about, in 1802. Dominance as you put it, is really nothing more than ego, folks running around thinking they are better than others, it’s a human weakness that’s easily exploited by Wall Street. Most farmers and truckers work their fingers to the bone, and when they start talking about how they are getting screwed, the plutocracy starts attacking them, telling them that they are just too stupid to run a business, and they need to become better negotiator’s.
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:05 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "I run with Landstar for almost 12 years flat and dry van If am going to buy a end dump trailer 45k used or 65k new and if I can't run for a minimum of 2.50 p/m I don't see the profit that am expecting to be able to maintain afloat Are we all in the same page or my numbers are an illusion."

Instead of looking at a rate per mile analysis a better question would be if you can hit your DAILY revenue target. You should determine what your daily MINIMUM rate is and go from there because mileage rates aren't a good overall determination IMO. You could get $5/mile and only run 50 miles. That doesn't make a for a profitable day.
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 08:37 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "Also, the ATA has MILLIONS of dollars "in the game" so they get to BUY laws by lining Congressmen's pockets. They are all filthy rich. Not even right to compare the OO to the mega IMO. "

Was Celedon a member of the ATA?
Replied on Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 08:37 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "If he owns five trucks, how does he drive all five by himself? If he leaves them sit, how does he make the payment’s without going bankrupt? "

Again, maybe he should downsize. Nobody is holding a gun to his head.

Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 07:54 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "Was Celedon a member of the ATA?"

As far as I know, Celadon was, along with Swift/Knight, Schnieder, and others.

Wunder which mega carrier will fall next.
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 07:54 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "Again, maybe he should downsize. Nobody is holding a gun to his head. "

I agree with you they should, but it doesn’t work that way, because if it did we wouldn’t be having this discussion about rates right now.
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 07:54 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "Was Celedon a member of the ATA?"

Yes! Also, Steve Russel was working for the Feds/Homeland Security while simultaneously heading the ATA. Crony Capitalism at it's finest. A picture perfect example of Corporatoracy hard at work.

https://www.fleetowner.com/news/article/21675402/celadon-chief-preps-for-ata-security-chair

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rise-of-the-corporatocracy/5532097
Replied on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:41 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.
Quote: "I agree with you they should, but it doesn’t work that way, because if it did we wouldn’t be having this discussion about rates right now."

Absolutely. The market is cyclical so obviously when things are good you grow but when the down time comes you shrink. It's not like he has to sell off his equipment. Just shelf it until the better times return OR he gets his sales slacks on and seeks some direct/contract work somewhere instead of running the spot market like single truck OO. Lots of variables here for the ambitious or the lazy route.