Factoring company files bankruptcy .

Sep 26, 2021 at 12:15 PM CST + 4
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Warning : Instapay Flexible , LLC filed Chapter 11 Bankruptcy on 9/19/2021

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 05:46 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Yikes

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 07:49 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. So serious question here, as a broker, does anyone know the correct approach to handling this - I thankfully don't have any current payables due to Instapay, but if I did, I would have a hard time writing them a check with them in chapter 11 and no idea how my carrier is doing.. Anyone have experience handling this type of situation?

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:08 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "So serious question here, as a broker, does anyone know the correct approach to handling this - I thankfully don't have any current payables due to Instapay, but if I did, I would have a hard time writing them a check with them in chapter 11 and no idea how my carrier is doing.. Anyone have experience handling this type of situation?" The correct approach would have been to build losses into your rate structure and not put all your eggs in one basket, avoid allowing customers to get so far behind that they can take you down with them, at the start of deregulation we had a sensible structure in place, but the morons eroded it.... If the shippers are not paying the factoring companies then how long until they stop paying those of us that do not use factoring companies? How many of you have noticed customers falling behind?

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:08 AM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Quote: "So serious question here, as a broker, does anyone know the correct approach to handling this - I thankfully don't have any current payables due to Instapay, but if I did, I would have a hard time writing them a check with them in chapter 11 and no idea how my carrier is doing.. Anyone have experience handling this type of situation?"

The correct approach would have been to build losses into your rate structure and not put all your eggs in one basket, avoid allowing customers to get so far behind that they can take you down with them, at the start of deregulation we had a sensible structure in place, but the morons eroded it.... If the shippers are not paying the factoring companies then how long until they stop paying those of us that do not use factoring companies? How many of you have noticed customers falling behind?

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:51 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "The correct approach would have been to build losses into your rate structure and not put all your eggs in one basket, avoid allowing customers to get so far behind that they can take you down with them, at the start of deregulation we had a sensible structure in place, but the morons eroded it.... If the shippers are not paying the factoring companies then how long until they stop paying those of us that do not use factoring companies? How many of you have noticed customers falling behind?" I can only speak for what we do, but we certainly take slow payments into consideration when we negotiate our rates. We have certain customers that we've build a larger margin in to essentially "pre build" in finance charges due to slow pays but generally pay times have been "normal". I despise having to chase money and the way things are currently if you get behind you'll be cut off after a few polite requests. My question has more to do with my obligation to pay the factoring company who is now in default. Obviously someone needs to get paid by me for the load, but if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct at that point. In theory he's already been paid for said load from the factor but may not have been paid for other work. Also final piece of advice for everyone - if you have an agreement with a broker (say, 15 days to pay) and they give you the "we haven't got paid yet" excuse, call them on it. The only reason to hold back payment because "we haven't been paid yet" is if there is an issue with paperwork, a weight discrepancy, or some other possible reason why a shortpay may be coming. If everything went perfect and theres no detention, accesorial charges, shortages, etc. then you should be getting paid at the agreed upon time, no questions asekd. I recently did a load that another broker reached out asking help for, 15 days to pay were their terms in the contract. No check after 15 days, with the "not paid yet" excuse... I sent them the contract and one was miraculously in the mail that day. As a broker we assume the risk of our customer's potential payment issues. We are supposed to guarantee pay regardless, unless there is a potential issue that has yet to be resolved as previously stated.

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:51 AM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Quote: "The correct approach would have been to build losses into your rate structure and not put all your eggs in one basket, avoid allowing customers to get so far behind that they can take you down with them, at the start of deregulation we had a sensible structure in place, but the morons eroded it.... If the shippers are not paying the factoring companies then how long until they stop paying those of us that do not use factoring companies? How many of you have noticed customers falling behind?"

I can only speak for what we do, but we certainly take slow payments into consideration when we negotiate our rates. We have certain customers that we've build a larger margin in to essentially "pre build" in finance charges due to slow pays but generally pay times have been "normal". I despise having to chase money and the way things are currently if you get behind you'll be cut off after a few polite requests.

My question has more to do with my obligation to pay the factoring company who is now in default. Obviously someone needs to get paid by me for the load, but if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct at that point. In theory he's already been paid for said load from the factor but may not have been paid for other work.

Also final piece of advice for everyone - if you have an agreement with a broker (say, 15 days to pay) and they give you the "we haven't got paid yet" excuse, call them on it. The only reason to hold back payment because "we haven't been paid yet" is if there is an issue with paperwork, a weight discrepancy, or some other possible reason why a shortpay may be coming. If everything went perfect and theres no detention, accesorial charges, shortages, etc. then you should be getting paid at the agreed upon time, no questions asekd. I recently did a load that another broker reached out asking help for, 15 days to pay were their terms in the contract. No check after 15 days, with the "not paid yet" excuse... I sent them the contract and one was miraculously in the mail that day. As a broker we assume the risk of our customer's potential payment issues. We are supposed to guarantee pay regardless, unless there is a potential issue that has yet to be resolved as previously stated.

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 02:13 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "I can only speak for what we do, but we certainly take slow payments into consideration when we negotiate our rates. We have certain customers that we've build a larger margin in to essentially "pre build" in finance charges due to slow pays but generally pay times have been "normal". I despise having to chase money and the way things are currently if you get behind you'll be cut off after a few polite requests. My question has more to do with my obligation to pay the factoring company who is now in default. Obviously someone needs to get paid by me for the load, but if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct at that point. In theory he's already been paid for said load from the factor but may not have been paid for other work. Also final piece of advice for everyone - if you have an agreement with a broker (say, 15 days to pay) and they give you the "we haven't got paid yet" excuse, call them on it. The only reason to hold back payment because "we haven't been paid yet" is if there is an issue with paperwork, a weight discrepancy, or some other possible reason why a shortpay may be coming. If everything went perfect and theres no detention, accesorial charges, shortages, etc. then you should be getting paid at the agreed upon time, no questions asekd. I recently did a load that another broker reached out asking help for, 15 days to pay were their terms in the contract. No check after 15 days, with the "not paid yet" excuse... I sent them the contract and one was miraculously in the mail that day. As a broker we assume the risk of our customer's potential payment issues. We are supposed to guarantee pay regardless, unless there is a potential issue that has yet to be resolved as previously stated." I will vouch for that Steven! We have always been paid timely when working with you! Thanks!

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 02:13 PM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Quote: "I can only speak for what we do, but we certainly take slow payments into consideration when we negotiate our rates. We have certain customers that we've build a larger margin in to essentially "pre build" in finance charges due to slow pays but generally pay times have been "normal". I despise having to chase money and the way things are currently if you get behind you'll be cut off after a few polite requests. My question has more to do with my obligation to pay the factoring company who is now in default. Obviously someone needs to get paid by me for the load, but if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct at that point. In theory he's already been paid for said load from the factor but may not have been paid for other work. Also final piece of advice for everyone - if you have an agreement with a broker (say, 15 days to pay) and they give you the "we haven't got paid yet" excuse, call them on it. The only reason to hold back payment because "we haven't been paid yet" is if there is an issue with paperwork, a weight discrepancy, or some other possible reason why a shortpay may be coming. If everything went perfect and theres no detention, accesorial charges, shortages, etc. then you should be getting paid at the agreed upon time, no questions asekd. I recently did a load that another broker reached out asking help for, 15 days to pay were their terms in the contract. No check after 15 days, with the "not paid yet" excuse... I sent them the contract and one was miraculously in the mail that day. As a broker we assume the risk of our customer's potential payment issues. We are supposed to guarantee pay regardless, unless there is a potential issue that has yet to be resolved as previously stated."

I will vouch for that Steven! We have always been paid timely when working with you! Thanks!

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 02:30 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "I can only speak for what we do, but we certainly take slow payments into consideration when we negotiate our rates. We have certain customers that we've build a larger margin in to essentially "pre build" in finance charges due to slow pays but generally pay times have been "normal". I despise having to chase money and the way things are currently if you get behind you'll be cut off after a few polite requests. My question has more to do with my obligation to pay the factoring company who is now in default. Obviously someone needs to get paid by me for the load, but if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct at that point. In theory he's already been paid for said load from the factor but may not have been paid for other work. Also final piece of advice for everyone - if you have an agreement with a broker (say, 15 days to pay) and they give you the "we haven't got paid yet" excuse, call them on it. The only reason to hold back payment because "we haven't been paid yet" is if there is an issue with paperwork, a weight discrepancy, or some other possible reason why a shortpay may be coming. If everything went perfect and theres no detention, accesorial charges, shortages, etc. then you should be getting paid at the agreed upon time, no questions asekd. I recently did a load that another broker reached out asking help for, 15 days to pay were their terms in the contract. No check after 15 days, with the "not paid yet" excuse... I sent them the contract and one was miraculously in the mail that day. As a broker we assume the risk of our customer's potential payment issues. We are supposed to guarantee pay regardless, unless there is a potential issue that has yet to be resolved as previously stated." As far as factoring goes, it is my opinion that if you need to factor, you are doing something wrong! We have been in the business for a long time without factoring. Get a line of credit at the bank to help out in tight times and do things yourself.

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 02:30 PM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

As far as factoring goes, it is my opinion that if you need to factor, you are doing something wrong! We have been in the business for a long time without factoring. Get a line of credit at the bank to help out in tight times and do things yourself.

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:05 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "So serious question here, as a broker, does anyone know the correct approach to handling this - I thankfully don't have any current payables due to Instapay, but if I did, I would have a hard time writing them a check with them in chapter 11 and no idea how my carrier is doing.. Anyone have experience handling this type of situation?" I can see where that would get tricky, the contract between the carrier and factoring company is generally valid until it becomes nullified by either party, so assuming the factoring company is still in business, and the carrier sold the freight bills to them, you probably have to pay the factoring company, even if they default on the carrier, the default would likely be a triggering event that would nullify the contract going forward, but the carrier is still going to eat the loss, possibly going bankrupt himself, but that’s just a guess as I am not a lawyer and do not practice law. Bankruptcy is the gift that keeps on giving.

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:05 PM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

I can see where that would get tricky, the contract between the carrier and factoring company is generally valid until it becomes nullified by either party, so assuming the factoring company is still in business, and the carrier sold the freight bills to them, you probably have to pay the factoring company, even if they default on the carrier, the default would likely be a triggering event that would nullify the contract going forward, but the carrier is still going to eat the loss, possibly going bankrupt himself, but that’s just a guess as I am not a lawyer and do not practice law. Bankruptcy is the gift that keeps on giving.

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:05 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. I`m not sure why anyone would use a factoring company , but I am aware that individuals and companies go that route . To protect your hard earned money you need to cut costs and the way I see it factoring is not a wise choice to reach that goal . If anyone is interested in periodically checking to see if the organization that owes you money has filed bankruptcy just go to Pacer.gov and sign up and you can use that government source to get the information on companies and indivduals that have have filed . I have used this source for many years to find the truth on the people that I do business with . You need to be on top of things when you have your capital at risk .

Replied on Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:05 PM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

I`m not sure why anyone would use a factoring company , but I am aware that individuals and companies go that route . To protect your hard earned money you need to cut costs and the way I see it factoring is not a wise choice to reach that goal . If anyone is interested in periodically checking to see if the organization that owes you money has filed bankruptcy just go to Pacer.gov and sign up and you can use that government source to get the information on companies and indivduals that have have filed . I have used this source for many years to find the truth on the people that I do business with . You need to be on top of things when you have your capital at risk .

Replied on Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 09:52 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "I`m not sure why anyone would use a factoring company , but I am aware that individuals and companies go that route . To protect your hard earned money you need to cut costs and the way I see it factoring is not a wise choice to reach that goal . If anyone is interested in periodically checking to see if the organization that owes you money has filed bankruptcy just go to Pacer.gov and sign up and you can use that government source to get the information on companies and indivduals that have have filed . I have used this source for many years to find the truth on the people that I do business with . You need to be on top of things when you have your capital at risk ." I generally agree with this. As a broker it is interesting to me to see carriers factor loads, which is essentially a quick pay, when you're working through a broker already. If you factor, they'll charge around 4% but if the customer fails to pay they will come back at you after a certain number of days. If you quick pay through a broker, you'll usually get around that 4% as well, and that's it. All the burden of payment collection falls to the broker. Not saying a quickpay is worth it, but it's a service that some guys need from time to time. It's just very interesting to see the number of loads that are factored but the carrier still carries the payment liability for the same(ish) cost with a factor. Are there any other advantages to a factoring company that I am missing here?

Replied on Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 09:52 AM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Quote: "I`m not sure why anyone would use a factoring company , but I am aware that individuals and companies go that route . To protect your hard earned money you need to cut costs and the way I see it factoring is not a wise choice to reach that goal . If anyone is interested in periodically checking to see if the organization that owes you money has filed bankruptcy just go to Pacer.gov and sign up and you can use that government source to get the information on companies and indivduals that have have filed . I have used this source for many years to find the truth on the people that I do business with . You need to be on top of things when you have your capital at risk ."

I generally agree with this. As a broker it is interesting to me to see carriers factor loads, which is essentially a quick pay, when you're working through a broker already.

If you factor, they'll charge around 4% but if the customer fails to pay they will come back at you after a certain number of days.

If you quick pay through a broker, you'll usually get around that 4% as well, and that's it. All the burden of payment collection falls to the broker. Not saying a quickpay is worth it, but it's a service that some guys need from time to time. It's just very interesting to see the number of loads that are factored but the carrier still carries the payment liability for the same(ish) cost with a factor. Are there any other advantages to a factoring company that I am missing here?

Replied on Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 04:06 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Truthfully there is no reason why you should have to pay someone to get your own money, or wait 30 days or more to get it, the truckers are providing interest free factoring services to their customers ( No wonder those other factoring companies couldn’t compete) How backwards is that?

Replied on Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 04:06 PM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Truckers are the only group of business owners I know of that constantly negotiate themselves backwards, it makes no sense to me how they minimize and marginalize themselves in the market, for example have you ever noticed how many of these shippers have fences with barbed wire surrounding their property? Or how many of them have gates with security guards? Obviously the shippers are concerned about security for their merchandise, so if the trucker is both a driver and a security guard, why does he only get paid for time spent driving?

Replied on Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 04:06 PM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Truckers are the only group of business owners I know of that constantly negotiate themselves backwards, it makes no sense to me how they minimize and marginalize themselves in the market, for example have you ever noticed how many of these shippers have fences with barbed wire surrounding their property? Or how many of them have gates with security guards? Obviously the shippers are concerned about security for their merchandise, so if the trucker is both a driver and a security guard, why does he only get paid for time spent driving?

Replied on Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 07:53 AM CST
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "Truckers are the only group of business owners I know of that constantly negotiate themselves backwards, it makes no sense to me how they minimize and marginalize themselves in the market, for example have you ever noticed how many of these shippers have fences with barbed wire surrounding their property? Or how many of them have gates with security guards? Obviously the shippers are concerned about security for their merchandise, so if the trucker is both a driver and a security guard, why does he only get paid for time spent driving?" Well put dave

Replied on Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 07:53 AM CST

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

Quote: "Truckers are the only group of business owners I know of that constantly negotiate themselves backwards, it makes no sense to me how they minimize and marginalize themselves in the market, for example have you ever noticed how many of these shippers have fences with barbed wire surrounding their property? Or how many of them have gates with security guards? Obviously the shippers are concerned about security for their merchandise, so if the trucker is both a driver and a security guard, why does he only get paid for time spent driving?"

Well put dave

Replied on Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 01:29 PM CST + 1
Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.	Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member. Quote: "I can only speak for what we do, but we certainly take slow payments into consideration when we negotiate our rates. We have certain customers that we've build a larger margin in to essentially "pre build" in finance charges due to slow pays but generally pay times have been "normal". I despise having to chase money and the way things are currently if you get behind you'll be cut off after a few polite requests. My question has more to do with my obligation to pay the factoring company who is now in default. Obviously someone needs to get paid by me for the load, but if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct at that point. In theory he's already been paid for said load from the factor but may not have been paid for other work. Also final piece of advice for everyone - if you have an agreement with a broker (say, 15 days to pay) and they give you the "we haven't got paid yet" excuse, call them on it. The only reason to hold back payment because "we haven't been paid yet" is if there is an issue with paperwork, a weight discrepancy, or some other possible reason why a shortpay may be coming. If everything went perfect and theres no detention, accesorial charges, shortages, etc. then you should be getting paid at the agreed upon time, no questions asekd. I recently did a load that another broker reached out asking help for, 15 days to pay were their terms in the contract. No check after 15 days, with the "not paid yet" excuse... I sent them the contract and one was miraculously in the mail that day. As a broker we assume the risk of our customer's potential payment issues. We are supposed to guarantee pay regardless, unless there is a potential issue that has yet to be resolved as previously stated." "if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct " ..... First and foremost this company is not out of business , YET . The nature of Chapter 11 is reorganization theoretically and in the meantime while the case is ongoing by law you have to abide by bankruptcy law. If you were to pay someone that gave away their right to collect on an invoice { and that is what you do when you sign a factoring agreement } you most likely would be charged by the trustee that was appointed by the court to control the case with a little known aspect of bankruptcy called preference. In essence it means that someone got paid ahead of the listed creditors and you would be forced to pay that money back into the chapter 11 case. As an aside the 11 case could be converted to a 7 and that means liquidation . By the way.....I am not an attorney , just many decades dealing with chasing my money and all of what that entails.

Replied on Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 01:29 PM CST

+ 1

Posted by a private FlatLoads.com member.

"if the factoring company is out of business I would rather pay the truck direct " ..... First and foremost this company is not out of business , YET . The nature of Chapter 11 is reorganization theoretically and in the meantime while the case is ongoing by law you have to abide by bankruptcy law. If you were to pay someone that gave away their right to collect on an invoice { and that is what you do when you sign a factoring agreement } you most likely would be charged by the trustee that was appointed by the court to control the case with a little known aspect of bankruptcy called preference. In essence it means that someone got paid ahead of the listed creditors and you would be forced to pay that money back into the chapter 11 case. As an aside the 11 case could be converted to a 7 and that means liquidation . By the way.....I am not an attorney , just many decades dealing with chasing my money and all of what that entails.

Factoring company files bankruptcy .

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